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I have been thinking about the Ausländergesetzt in American Football in Germany. (1 American and 2 Europeans or 2 Americans and 1 European on the field at any given time)

I can understand the rule if its intention is to keep the higher leagues from paying to have "pro" players imported, but I doubt that the lower leagues like the Aufbauliga or Verbandsliga are drafting in players who just missed the NFL cutoff to play for them.

Doesn't the rule conflict with the basic Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgestz (AGG) that Germany has in place anyways? (AGG §1 Ziel des Gesetzes ist, Benachteiligungen aus Gründen der Rasse oder wegen der ethnischen Herkunft, des Geschlechts, der Religion oder Weltanschauung, einer Behinderung, des Alters oder der sexuellen Identität zu verhindern oder zu beseitigen.)

The moment you pay someone to play, you are an employer and they are an employee. (2.1.§ 6 AGG Persönlicher Anwendungsbereich)

And *if* everyone was really so worried about "the best players in the world" being American, should they not be going after the schools in Germany to get the sport incorporated into their systems? I think the population in general is mis-informed about gridiron and how the game is really played. Too often I have seen new players come in for a try-out at age 24, and they are natural talents. Imagine the talent they could have had if their schools offered the sports for the younger generations.

What are some of the other pros and cons of the rule that I may not have mentioned or overlooked?

Wenn irgendjemand dagegen klagen würde, würde zumindest die "E" Regelung ganz schnell abgeschafft werde. Denn gerade alle EU-Bürger dürfen überall in der EU beschäftigt werden und müssen gleich behandelt werden.

Parker hat geschrieben: Doesn't the rule conflict with the basic Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgestz (AGG) that Germany has in place anyways? (AGG §1 Ziel des Gesetzes ist, Benachteiligungen aus Gründen der Rasse oder wegen der ethnischen Herkunft, des Geschlechts, der Religion oder Weltanschauung, einer Behinderung, des Alters oder der sexuellen Identität zu verhindern oder zu beseitigen.)

OK, I'll try it in english.. *g*
No, that rule does not conflict with the AGG (or the Grundgesetz) as those players are not limited on the field due to race, ethnic (!) origin, sex, religion, world view, an impediment, age or sexual identity... they ARE limited because of their nationality.. in the same way, as non-germans can not get the status of a "Beamter"

(Ich verstehe schon Deutsch, aber mein Grammatik reicht nicht aus um meine Gedanken in diesen Thematik richtig zu formulieren)

But does that not boil down to "You can't be on the field because you are not German" ? (grob ausgedruckt)

The right phrase must be "You can't be on the field because in your country football is played in school".

So what is keeping Germans from playing football in their schools? I do know that there are some schools in Germany that do play flag football. It has been my experience that almost every E (and even some A) have never played football in school, and started playing in the AFV-Germany.

Penalizing a person because an entire country lacks a particular sport in their schools seems sort of... vindictive.

Please dont misunderstand, by the way. I do not want to pick any fights, but I do want to challenge the integrity of this rule.

Parker hat geschrieben:So what is keeping Germans from playing football in their schools?

Silly habbits ...

Parker hat geschrieben:(Ich verstehe schon Deutsch, aber mein Grammatik reicht nicht aus um meine Gedanken in diesen Thematik richtig zu formulieren)

Doesn't look that bad to me

But does that not boil down to "You can't be on the field because you are not German" ? (grob ausgedruckt)

Yes, exactly..
And please - I didn't want to judge that ruling. I just wanted to explain that it is within the words of the AGG and the Grundgesetz.

The only reason I would see for that rule, is that it keeps the richer teams from getting too many players who would have a lot more experience and training than their german competitors and the not so rich teams from spending too much money to have a chance to compete.

The moment you pay someone to play, you are an employer and they are an employee. (2.1.§ 6 AGG Persönlicher Anwendungsbereich)

But that rule isn't made by the employer - here: the teams - but the Verband. The cases given in § 2 AGG in which the AGG has to be observed do not encompass "playing american football"
So the AGG's rulings do not need to be observed.

Exillöwe hat geschrieben: The only reason I would see for that rule, is that it keeps the richer teams from getting too many players who would have a lot more experience and training than their german competitors and the not so rich teams from spending too much money to have a chance to compete.

I agree with your point here. I have an A on my helmet and have been playing since 1989 (High School in Vilseck Germany) and I will never accept money to play this game (in fact I pay to play just like most of us). Limiting the teams Americans doesnt bother me at all really. It's the "E" that worries me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eu ... ber_states

Can anyone name any countries there (other than perhaps England) that have American Football in their schools?

Football wird in deutschen Schulen nicht gespielt, weil es nicht tradiert ist
und zudem in Sachen Ausrüstung, Spielerzahl, Lehrerausbildung etc. zu
großen Schwierigkeiten käme. Dazu kommen jede Menge anderer Hin-
derungsgründe.

Deshalb werden auch andere Sportarten wie Polo, Rennsegeln, Motor-
sport jeglicher Art, Formationstanz und mongolische Reiterspiele nicht
unterrichtet.

Sport und Sportförderung an amerikanischen Schulen und Hochschulen
haben mit dem guten alten deutschen Sportunterricht so viel zu tun wie
George Bush mit nem Akademiker (und ja, ich weiß um seinen Harvard-
Abschluss).

FlagFootball wird inzwischen an einigen Schulen unterrichtet, das kann
aber den Rückstand in Sachen Tackle-Football nur marginal verringern.

I just had an idea.

What if players who wore an A or an E could apply for an exemption?
This would have to be reviewed by the AFVD and approved or declined.

It would help to show for example, a player who is a Turkish National, but has lived their entire life in Germany, and only gone to German schools.

That player could then be approved by the AFVD to have a pass with an
" E mit Ausnahme " and could play the game without an E on their equipment.

An interesting idea.... but this is Germany, the land of infinte forms.
I guess this won't happen.

Thats where the idea came from. The person applying would have to fill out the paperwork and have it approved or declined. All kinds of forms involved.

Don't get me wrong: I think there should be a better ruling on who really learned the game before he learned to walk.

But to be honest I like the idea of limiting the number of guys from "football countries" on each roster and per play.

Thats understandable, but how many players do you know who wear an E who moved here to play Football? Every E I have met was born and raised in Germany.